Grass harrow to rejuvenate pasture?

[Winklepicker]

Has anyone successfully rejuvinated pasture with a pass or two with some grass harrows then spread grass seed with slug pellets?
It’s something I’m thinking of doing on some old pasture which I don’t want to plough.
Any tips for success?

 

[primmiemoo]

I think timing is important. Scratch and oversow when it's mild and the ground is damp and warm. When that is depends on region, but September seems ok.

General theme : Make sure the grass is grazed tight - or you can scratch and oversow silage aftermath - make sure the harrows scuffle rather than gouge - oversow (never needed slug pellets here, but you know your ground), let sheep in to tread in seed and nibble off grass growth since sowing (or roll lightly if no sheep).

Plenty of others have variations, and will advise better about afterwards.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

.Spin it on at half rate at half width - it doesn't fly very far, 7 or 8 metres

.If possible use tetraploid seeds as they are bigger and have more vigour.

.Reduce leaf area of the existing pasture as much as possible, or consider stalling it briefly via "chemical topping" with a whiff of herbicide (eg 100ml/acre G360) if you can't graze it tight enough

.Give the stock another whizz over it just prior to the seed coming up to further deplete the existing

.Consider putting a bit of cereal in the hopper as a nurse crop to help take the heat off what you're flicking on

.Works really well with clovers, vetch, plantain etc but not so well with grass here but see how you go

 

[som farmer]

not over impressed with scratching the seed in, we do all the above, but d/drill, the seed is then properly connected to the soil. Having bought a drill last year, specificly for drilling grass, and overseeding, we have been very pleased with results, it's way better than scratching it in.

 

[hally]

Always wondered why these Harrow companies with the seed boxes on the top, never show any trial work linked to the drill. A few years ago I was asked by a grass Harrow company to do a series of roadshows locally with them and our grass seed company. I asked if there was any trial work done to prove the results of the overseeding and was told there was none, that said it all to me and I never bothered with the idea. Too many companies want to part farmers with their money with no science behind the idea imo.
A lot of dairy farmers a few years ago bought these machines for overseeding to save on direct drilling costs, a couple of years later every machine is lying behind a hedge and we are back on the farms direct drilling. Too hit and miss.

 

[ford4000]

Yes, have a harrow and tried it many times, but not very successfully. Grass seeds get smothered by the other grass outgrowing it, or if you graze it with sheep they pick out and kill off the new grass.
It can work if you cut it early for silage... But all the poor grasses are still there.

A friend reseeded 50 acres with one but after spraying off the old sward with roundup

 

[som farmer]

they are fine for drilling grass into worked ground, but the only real success we had, was scratching in westerwold, into some patches, big aggressive seed. The difference in either over seeding, or d/d with our vaderstat, is so much better, than trying to 'scratch' it in. Seed has to be in proper contact with the soil to grow, on a flat perfect surface, scratch might work, but under field conditions ? no wonder no trial work to back it up.

 

[neilo]

I seem to remember @ploughman1963 posting that he bought a Duncan DD after having a local contractor scratch some seed in with an Einboch (unsuccessfully).

Very limited success with either method when overseeding IMO, unless it's a very clean, but bare, ryegrass sward. Anything else just comes back and swamps out the seedlings in no time at all. Westerwolds/IRG will strike best, but they aren't great for grazing systems and don't last long anyway.

 

[milkloss]

Imo direct drilling grass seed without a full kill beforehand is a waste of time. In fact direct drilling grass is a bit hit and miss and a gamble with expensive seed.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Always wondered why these Harrow companies with the seed boxes on the top, never show any trial work linked to the drill. A few years ago I was asked by a grass Harrow company to do a series of roadshows locally with them and our grass seed company. I asked if there was any trial work done to prove the results of the overseeding and was told there was none, that said it all to me and I never bothered with the idea. Too many companies want to part farmers with their money with no science behind the idea imo.
A lot of dairy farmers a few years ago bought these machines for overseeding to save on direct drilling costs, a couple of years later every machine is lying behind a hedge and we are back on the farms direct drilling. Too hit and miss.

They are perfect for putting grass seed into conventional seed beds.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Always wondered why these Harrow companies with the seed boxes on the top, never show any trial work linked to the drill. A few years ago I was asked by a grass Harrow company to do a series of roadshows locally with them and our grass seed company. I asked if there was any trial work done to prove the results of the overseeding and was told there was none, that said it all to me and I never bothered with the idea. Too many companies want to part farmers with their money with no science behind the idea imo.
A lot of dairy farmers a few years ago bought these machines for overseeding to save on direct drilling costs, a couple of years later every machine is lying behind a hedge and we are back on the farms direct drilling. Too hit and miss.

Loads of muppet consultants told farmers they would save a fortune with these things. In reality overseeding is only suitable in situations as Neil described. I used to sell lots of grass seed. You want to put expensive seed into an established pasture full of weed grasses be my guest.

I can remember the few times I had genuine grass establishment failures. Generally they were due to seed bed shortcomings. Another was frost heave (they had broadcast the seed and just rolled it in).

 

[Nithsdale]

When dad outwintered the cattle, we used to chain Harrow and then overseed (wagtail vicon varispreader) areas of fields every year in the spring (bits that got too poached near feeders or gateways etc).

It always worked well. Can't see why some say harrows and seed doesn't work. Maybe you're not scratching the ground enough. We always did 3-4 passes with chain harrows, teeth down, before chucking the seed on then another pass with the teeth pointing up to work it in. There needs to be plenty of loose soil for the seed.

With these spring tined harrows the principles are still the same. You can't overseed in just 1 pass - unless a bed is already there for the seed.

 

[som farmer]

see the difference your self, then decide, for us, it was a no brainer.

 

[Cvx1170]

Roller roller roller roller roller, then roll it again

 

[hally]

It’s the competition that’s the problem, grass seed into a tight ley with no way of slowing up the old grass is never successful. However a very open sward, or numerous passes with a Harrow to destroy the old pasture could have a different result. As said before seed to soil contact is crucial.

 

[Nithsdale]

It’s the competition that’s the problem, grass seed into a tight ley with no way of slowing up the old grass is never successful. However a very open sward, or numerous passes with a Harrow to destroy the old pasture could have a different result. As said before seed to soil contact is crucial.

If its a thick/tight lay, why would you want to overseed? It's either healthy and needs left alone - or needing complete reseed (burnt off and start again).

Overseeding is for patching into a threadbare ley to rejuvenate or repair damaged areas

 

[deere 6600]

It’s the competition that’s the problem, grass seed into a tight ley with no way of slowing up the old grass is never successful. However a very open sward, or numerous passes with a Harrow to destroy the old pasture could have a different result. As said before seed to soil contact is crucial.

This post somes the whole job up and I have done a fair few acres with a moore over the years

 

[Global ovine]

It’s the competition that’s the problem, grass seed into a tight ley with no way of slowing up the old grass is never successful. However a very open sward, or numerous passes with a Harrow to destroy the old pasture could have a different result. As said before seed to soil contact is crucial.

Totally agree with the highlighted sentence. Therefore 4 options exist to rejuvenate a field of pasture in order of time taken and certainly cost per hectare:

1. Spray out (optional depending on persistence of undesirable plants) and plough as in conventional reseeding.
2. Spray out at full chemical rates (up to 5 L/ha of Roundup) and direct drill (preferably diamond pattern at half rate with each pass), may need slug bait.
3. Chemical top with 300 mls/ha of Roundup and single pass with direct drill, but only in cases where a new cultivar is introduced into pastures where good clover and desired grasses are present. This reduces the competition for light helping the emerging seedlings. Gives a huge clover burst if done when soil temperatures climb into the teens.
4. Intensively subdivide the field into blocks and graze to lower residuals. Smaller areas and more frequent shifts reduce feed stress on animals. Two growing seasons of this treatment will change the sward composition back to about the same as a three year old ley.

BUT firstly the question has to be asked, "why has the sward composition deteriorated in that field?"
Is it due to poor grazing management allowing the animals too much choice to encourage undesirable species to dominate?
Is there a physical problem such as poor drainage?
Is it a soil fertility problem, such as a macro element deficiency?
Or a mix of the above?

It is very easy to waste seed and effort if the cause of the original problem is not addressed and half baked treatments are used as a repair kit.

 

[som farmer]

Totally agree with the highlighted sentence. Therefore 4 options exist to rejuvenate a field of pasture in order of time taken and certainly cost per hectare:

1. Spray out (optional depending on persistence of undesirable plants) and plough as in conventional reseeding.
2. Spray out at full chemical rates (up to 5 L/ha of Roundup) and direct drill (preferably diamond pattern at half rate with each pass), may need slug bait.
3. Chemical top with 300 mls/ha of Roundup and single pass with direct drill, but only in cases where a new cultivar is introduced into pastures where good clover and desired grasses are present. This reduces the competition for light helping the emerging seedlings. Gives a huge clover burst if done when soil temperatures climb into the teens.
4. Intensively subdivide the field into blocks and graze to lower residuals. Smaller areas and more frequent shifts reduce feed stress on animals. Two growing seasons of this treatment will change the sward composition back to about the same as a three year old ley.

BUT firstly the question has to be asked, "why has the sward composition deteriorated in that field?"
Is it due to poor grazing management allowing the animals too much choice to encourage undesirable species to dominate?
Is there a physical problem such as poor drainage?
Is it a soil fertility problem, such as a macro element deficiency?
Or a mix of the above?

It is very easy to waste seed and effort if the cause of the original problem is not addressed and half baked treatments are used as a repair kit.

we have had problems with leys not lasting, and staying thin. After 2 very dry summers, and high stocking rates, overgrazing has been unhelpful, one of the reasons we bought a d/drill to rectify this. Also, very unexpected, as we carry a lot of stock, p and k levels were very low, this will be rectified asp as weather allows with straight p and sim k, this will allow adjustment to specific fields. PH level is monitored and rectified, and we have had good responses to sulphur. We certainly did not expect to see very low p and k levels (0 and 1 ) in grazed fields ! Where we have grazed kale, p & k levels are ok, so that has responded to heavy sh1t applications. So we will make a lot more use of sh1t, which we have loads of. Whether this is tied in to another deficiency, it will be interesting to see. Compaction has always caused problems here, and we are proactive with subsoilers, and aerators. Drainage, after this winter, has been shown to have a few 'problems', and is certainly not had the maintainance it should have had, although we are a dry farm. It is interesting to see/read different points on here, and I think soil maintainance should be very high on priorities, and frequent ploughing, kills off loads of bugs fungi and worms, which hasten the breakdown of soil structure. On our farm, I think we have reached a point, where lots of 'things' have culminated to cause the problems we have.

 

[Ysgythan]

This is pretty comprehensive