Grass harrow to rejuvenate pasture?

[Kiwi Pete]

done some trials here with. weird things sunflowers. etc etc etc. been listening to Sandel wearing mates too much
it did dry out after seeding on going rains may of made a diffrence
no spray grazed in to the ground. and. grazed after drilling for a few days write off
300mls ummm ho hum some. strike alot of poorer grasses. come back
600 mls a lot better , had spray left over so done random passes to get rid of it.
1000mls with. a few. things added SoA and some oils took out 99% of the paddock
from the trials in the spring going in to a dryer spell would not do any thing less than 600 mls and if heated up can kill out. quite good at 1000 mls
round up used was 540Ai
paddocks older Lucerne cocksfoot paddock with. navite. grasses coming back. for the 300 and 600ml trial
1000ml older paddock mostly older native grasses. been worked and regrassed in the last 15 years

Rain helps.

 

[JD-Kid]

I was guessing it wouldve only been a small amount of cft in with it.
Next luc I put I'll try a bit cft in with it I think, bit of chicory as well as I put that in with everything these days .

Boy were they ahead of the game in the 20's... a let alone the 50's, must've got the lucerne idea from somewhere like Israel perhaps.

Not sure about the RCA in with it , if theres rc going round the farm I would want the luc field to be a break from it and vise versa.......

the Luc cocksfoot chicory mix. were the only things that kept growing in some dry years think around WW1 the idea being the. chicory sub soiled the ground letting roots down and died out after a few years leaving just Luc and cocksfoot.
the mix was in lbs per acre
cocksfoot 14
red clover 3
chicory 3
luc 3
dogs tail 1
that was for hard dry sub soils
writen in 1918

 

[JD-Kid]

View attachment 862647
Rain helps.

yes it would

 

[Kiwi Pete]

View attachment 862649
yes it would

Today, and everyday, is one closer to a wet arse JD

 

[Bury the Trash]

the Luc cocksfoot chicory mix. were the only things that kept growing in some dry years think around WW1 the idea being the. chicory sub soiled the ground letting roots down and died out after a few years leaving just Luc and cocksfoot.
the mix was in lbs per acre
cocksfoot 14
red clover 3
chicory 3
luc 3
dogs tail 1
that was for hard dry sub soils
writen in 1918

Very Interesting.

Cocksfoot s got the big and long roots potential but not so good as a tough tap rooted plant at driving down I guess.
Them are Certainly complimentary mixes and good variety , which after a while later everybody went away from....

After Reading Doug Avery's book and it now makes think especially when he started the grazing with the luc, perhaps he wouldve been better with some of them dry ground plants in the mix , if nothing other than to transition the ewes and help with the bloat problem he had at the time.

But that just Hindsight I guess

 

[JD-Kid]

Very Interesting.

Cocksfoot s got the big and long roots potential but not so good as a tough tap rooted plant at driving down I guess.
Them are Certainly complimentary mixes and good variety , which after a while later everybody went away from....

After Reading Doug Avery's book and it now makes think especially when he started the grazing with the luc, perhaps he wouldve been better with some of them dry ground plants in the mix , if nothing other than to transition the ewes and help with the bloat problem he had at the time.

But that just Hindsight I guess

some of the times the mono crops easyer. for weed control and grazing management
when I first did the tall fescue and Luc mixs down south the seed rep thought my head was on fire.
luc and rye grass works. well for silage lifting the sugars in the crop but. drill the grass. a year or so after sowing the Luc if using ryegrass

 

[exmoor dave]

View attachment 862649
yes it would

Wow! What a difference from when we dropped by!

Struth that feels like a long time ago, hell of alot happened since!

 

[JD-Kid]

Wow! What a difference from when we dropped by!

Struth that feels like a long time ago, hell of alot happened since!

oh yea drys out fast had alot of drying winds along with low rains 125mm since oct and only 28 mm during jan=feb
cooling off. and ment to rain a bit today and next week but have had years no good rains till may

 

[JD-Kid]

that was taken end of oct and would be close to the middle of the dry pic posted above changes fast with low rain

 

[Global ovine]

the Luc cocksfoot chicory mix. were the only things that kept growing in some dry years think around WW1 the idea being the. chicory sub soiled the ground letting roots down and died out after a few years leaving just Luc and cocksfoot.
the mix was in lbs per acre
cocksfoot 14
red clover 3
chicory 3
luc 3
dogs tail 1
that was for hard dry sub soils
writen in 1918

Similar mixes used nowadays for permanent pastures in summer/autumn dry regions of NZ. These do well under rotational grazing as most of these components hate being suppressed by continuous grazing. They can become clumpy in wetter seasons when insufficient grazing pressure allows animals to preferentially graze. So care has to be taken to adjust grazing to the season to get good longevity out of the mix.
Be careful where Lucerne is introduced. All alluvial soils with good drainage are suitable. But some highly weathered soils on hills can be toxic to root penetration due to high aluminium levels. The hills of Marlborough where Doug Avery farms are 100% loess (formed from wind borne dust) therefore have the chemical status of alluviums, which are highly suited to Lucerne. The hills of Central Otago formed from weathered schist are not so suited and require high amounts of active forms of lime (burnt lime, Ca hydroxide) to suppress aluminium preventing the liming action to increase pH from working and disperse the toxic affect for root penetration. Many of the sandstone derived soils of the UK will behave similarly......horses for courses.

Hey @JD-Kid greetings. I followed a cruise ship through the Akaroa Heads at daylight a couple of weeks ago and thought the hills looks a suspicious light colour pre-sunrise. Hope todays rain is reaching you. It will come.

 

[JD-Kid]

Similar mixes used nowadays for permanent pastures in summer/autumn dry regions of NZ. These do well under rotational grazing as most of these components hate being suppressed by continuous grazing. They can become clumpy in wetter seasons when insufficient grazing pressure allows animals to preferentially graze. So care has to be taken to adjust grazing to the season to get good longevity out of the mix.
Be careful where Lucerne is introduced. All alluvial soils with good drainage are suitable. But some highly weathered soils on hills can be toxic to root penetration due to high aluminium levels. The hills of Marlborough where Doug Avery farms are 100% loess (formed from wind borne dust) therefore have the chemical status of alluviums, which are highly suited to Lucerne. The hills of Central Otago formed from weathered schist are not so suited and require high amounts of active forms of lime (burnt lime, Ca hydroxide) to suppress aluminium preventing the liming action to increase pH from working and disperse the toxic affect for root penetration. Many of the sandstone derived soils of the UK will behave similarly......horses for courses.

Hey @JD-Kid greetings. I followed a cruise ship through the Akaroa Heads at daylight a couple of weeks ago and thought the hills looks a suspicious light colour pre-sunrise. Hope todays rain is reaching you. It will come.

what were yer doing following a cruse boat ??? yer should of. waved. as yer went past

 

[neilo]

what were yer doing following a cruse boat ??? yer should of. waved. as yer went past

Late to the port when it set off??

 

[Bury the Trash]

Late to the port when it set off??

And Pretty wise I should think in the current climate .

 

[som farmer]

wouldn't want to have shares in a cruising company !

 

[neilo]

And Pretty wise I should think in the current climate .

My (retired) in-laws are still planning on going on the one they have booked for May.
They only cancelled their coach holiday to the Italian lakes last week though....

They’ve never considered a coach holiday before but MIL’s asthma is so bad that they struggle to get travel insurance. Last time she flew more than 4 hours (4 months ago) she was hospitalised for 2 weeks in intensive care.

I guess some people just like to live dangerously.

 

[multi power]

.Spin it on at half rate at half width - it doesn't fly very far, 7 or 8 metres

.If possible use tetraploid seeds as they are bigger and have more vigour.

.Reduce leaf area of the existing pasture as much as possible, or consider stalling it briefly via "chemical topping" with a whiff of herbicide (eg 100ml/acre G360) if you can't graze it tight enough

.Give the stock another whizz over it just prior to the seed coming up to further deplete the existing

.Consider putting a bit of cereal in the hopper as a nurse crop to help take the heat off what you're flicking on

.Works really well with clovers, vetch, plantain etc but not so well with grass here but see how you go

Pete it almost sounds like you have done it before

 

[Bury the Trash]

Similar mixes used nowadays for permanent pastures in summer/autumn dry regions of NZ. These do well under rotational grazing as most of these components hate being suppressed by continuous grazing. They can become clumpy in wetter seasons when insufficient grazing pressure allows animals to preferentially graze. So care has to be taken to adjust grazing to the season to get good longevity out of the mix.
Be careful where Lucerne is introduced. All alluvial soils with good drainage are suitable. But some highly weathered soils on hills can be toxic to root penetration due to high aluminium levels. The hills of Marlborough where Doug Avery farms are 100% loess (formed from wind borne dust) therefore have the chemical status of alluviums, which are highly suited to Lucerne. The hills of Central Otago formed from weathered schist are not so suited and require high amounts of active forms of lime (burnt lime, Ca hydroxide) to suppress aluminium preventing the liming action to increase pH from working and disperse the toxic affect for root penetration. Many of the sandstone derived soils of the UK will behave similarly......horses for courses.

Hey @JD-Kid greetings. I followed a cruise ship through the Akaroa Heads at daylight a couple of weeks ago and thought the hills looks a suspicious light colour pre-sunrise. Hope todays rain is reaching you. It will come.

That does help explain the soil type / lucerne growing suitability.

Seems I have , or we are on a relativly narrow 'fan' of land that is Alluvium ,
... even though sandstone is mentioned in the geological description, which is beyond my understanding.

I can grow it well here on the sloping half decent arable type ground , not on the more lower clay wet/ flat lying bits though obviously.
But I suspect from soils you describe as being unsuitable, that just a few miles North, South, and West it wouldnt do very well, even on well drained slopes and an awful lot of lime spread?

Certainly it explains how Doug Avery grew it on what to me seemed not so suitable as the river valleys/ plains I've seen it growing sucessfully before.
Another thing is I'm not sure that we get the 'more suited to grazing types' that you can? Or which he uses ? And All though j did graze mine more than any of the info on it advised ,( they seem to prefer the cutting regime rather a more lower from a production point of veiw sheep grazing way of using it.)
Doug doesnt exactly just try to encourage everyone to grow the stuff but he does encourage WC as a more general and widespread nitrogen fixer , ' something for free , what farmer could say no to that '

 

[Global ovine]

what were yer doing following a cruse boat ??? yer should of. waved. as yer went past

One gives way to heavy shipping, you were up in the clouds that morning and it was 5.00am.

I suppose you are down to basic capital stock numbers now. What are your plans if it rains, or stays dry? Will the direct drill be coming out?

@Bury the Trash I suppose the geological map calls your fan country sandstone as it washed down out of sandstone parent material. However it will be of recent origin, i.e. not highly weathered, so should suit Lucerne. Clay flats or rolling country is definitely not suitable as it will remain water logged for extended periods of the year.
It would be worth a chat to your seed merchant to see if they can obtain the bushier and shorter cultivars suited to grazing. There is now a range of Lucerne cultivars available to us in NZ for different uses and environments. A large trade in seeds exists between countries, so it may be worth asking around.

 

[JD-Kid]

One gives way to heavy shipping, you were up in the clouds that morning and it was 5.00am.

I suppose you are down to basic capital stock numbers now. What are your plans if it rains, or stays dry? Will the direct drill be coming out?

@Bury the Trash I suppose the geological map calls your fan country sandstone as it washed down out of sandstone parent material. However it will be of recent origin, i.e. not highly weathered, so should suit Lucerne. Clay flats or rolling country is definitely not suitable as it will remain water logged for extended periods of the year.
It would be worth a chat to your seed merchant to see if they can obtain the bushier and shorter cultivars suited to grazing. There is now a range of Lucerne cultivars available to us in NZ for different uses and environments. A large trade in seeds exists between countries, so it may be worth asking around.

Hi GO
naaa. not down to wintering numbers yet.
had a bit of a pr*ck of a spring wet and cold. grass was gutless ewes scouring then dried out lambs weaned 6 kg avg back on last year so alot of smalls
guy that was buying stores pulled out saying lambs were too slow. and what are IDF's never heard of them etc etc. so now selling to a corrie guy he likes them and takes them to bigger weights
V scan this year. around 55 % avg. and some we sent away the tops scanning. into the 60=63% range
drill comes out tomorrow rye corn, vetch, ryegrass, gland -crimson -arrow leaf clovers Appin turnips and tillage radish
some open paddocks. getting cocks foot annual clovers red clover. tall fescue chicory drill in
will be n going on to try and lift feed levels heading in to winter
ground hog will be coming out to crack the top in harder areas
ewes will be looked at harder. there are some lights that are replete singles. so they might be going
still 600 stores in a bigger mob about 300 to go next week and a mob of wee tiny guys about 200 in there
ewe hoggets had 150 taken off the bottom last week and the tops triing to get over 43 kg. by early April med hoggets just on cruse mode
it will rain but. could still be months away or next. week