Improving grain cooling

[DrWazzock]

Central Srorage. I’ll get my coat.
Just use the nice big shed as a dumping and loading pad.
If you do use twin wall, make sure it’s big enough. The stuff I’ve seen in large commercial stores is nearer 24” than 9” spaced so that artics could reverse between.

 

[alomy75]

Are you sucking heat out or blowing cold air in? Any issues with air flow as the pipe uncovers as the store empties? Thanks

This is what I was referring to with my solid/perf sections. As soon as perforated sections are exposed on the bigger diameter stuff a lot of air escapes (perforations are a lot bigger). How do you block the ends @quattro

 

[SilliamWhale]

I would say keep it simple and get more pedestals. Make a paint mark on the floor where they go and stick a plastic bucket on the top of the ones you are not using or ideally add more fans to help cooling quicker and have more ventilation in there from the back ie a

Hydor HV Belt Driven Fan

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Grainboy gave me a fair price on used metal pedestals. I thought about twinwall etc before but to be honest find the right pedestals and keep cooling and monitoring and it should be ok. Bigger dryers etc aren't going to make any difference but if you can get it on the floor that little bit cooler it could help.

The HGCA grain storage guide is very good. I had weevils once and it was all to do with not cooling well enough. I don't bother with humidity controls but I just keep cooling on timers until I'm happy with it. Not super efficient maybe but better than weevils!

 

[DrWazzock]

Pedestals are crap in my view. They work really well when you don’t really them.
A bit like Tunes, Vick, mustard poultices and all that stuff.
If it’s hot and wet it needs to be through a drier pronto. Been there, got the T shirt.

 

[D14]

Looking for ideas on how to cool grain - something we need to get better at.

We currently use pedesatals, but with a shed width of 33' per side, they're a bit wide for one but too narrow for two. Arguably more fans and auto controls would help improve things and is an option worth considering.
Part of the problem is the front half of the wheat shed can be emptied and refilled a few times over harvest, and its a pain scrambling up the heap to take the fans on and off the pedestals all the time - invariably sometimes they're too late been put back on.
They're ok but it strikes me that often we're just recirculating the same ever warmer air through the grain and not pulling enough cold air in from outside to cool effectively. On cold days we'll open the door to help but its not that effective really.

Its a bulk store with a good polished concrete floor 90' front to back. I don't really want to dig the floor up or overlay it with wood.

Anybody use twinwall pipe? We use them in 5' lengths in another shed for short term potatoes which work ok, but the fans on those are at the front of an open fronted shed - the forklift drives between them to outload in one shed. In the other they are fed from a central tunnel and are 90degrees to the direction of the forklift - definitely not an option in the grain shed that way.

I'm considering 9" twinwall lengthways up the shed - probably two of them about 15' apart, with a 90 at the back of the shed then an upright to a small platform on the wall top onto a fan drawing air in from outside? Better ideas welcome.
If we put two pipes each side we may need an exhaust louvre but that's doable.

I'm also considering upgrading the cropscan 16 controller in my potato store and using the cropscan to control the grain shed fans and make temp recording easier.

While we're on the 30yo Kentra dryer is at a crossroads. The control system is way out of date and some auto functions don't work well. The infrastructure around it is worn out and the steel pit liner leaks. Its a 10.5t continuous flow drying 2-3000t per season.
I've priced a 20t/hr of a different mfr that will fit in the same shed but needed a sit down when the quote arrived!

Options (and please suggest others)

1 Upgrade the electrics and replace the elevators and conveyors. Increase pit size from 3t to 15t. Keep 25t wet bin. Automate as far as possible.

2 Replace the entire system with one of similar capacity

3 Increase capacity as far as space allows with new

4 Replace the existing with a large static mobile dryer of some sort (outside mobile isn't practical)

5 Replace existing with a larger but s/h dryer with new or s/h infrastructure

100kva 3ph electric supply and kero pipe fed into the shed. (the front of the same shed as where the cooling needs improving above)

Thanks all

Simpliest thing but it'll involve a spend is an underfloor tunnel system with fan connected to an auto system with a mobile stirrer. We had the underfloor for years but this year put in an auto system and we cooled 2000t in a week stirring it twice. Best thing we've ever done.

 

[quattro]

Are you sucking heat out or blowing cold air in? Any issues with air flow as the pipe uncovers as the store empties? Thanks

blowing cold air in
I tend to find once it’s cooled down it keeps ok
if we’ve emptied a store early I have put a strap round the uncovered pipe and pulled it out so you can keep blowing

 

[quattro]

This is what I was referring to with my solid/perf sections. As soon as perforated sections are exposed on the bigger diameter stuff a lot of air escapes (perforations are a lot bigger). How do you block the ends @quattro

sheds are 120 ft long usually stop pipes at 100 ft
put a panel across door 8ft high and fill to that

 

[Grass And Grain]

More pedestals, temp controller (Inkbird, £35 from eBay).

We've got 28ft bays. Used to have 2 pedestals (across width), but that only left about 10ft between pedestals to work with the grain pusher, so now I just put one up the middle. A bit slower to get grain cool, but not had a problem.

Alternatively, put one pedestal along the wall side, then next one about 18ft across, leaving about 12ft of grain to the wall.

Never had a problem with pedestals, so I think more pedestals and more fans is cheapest solution. Temp controllers must pay for themselves pretty quickly with current leccy prices.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Pedestals are crap in my view. They work really well when you don’t really them.
A bit like Tunes, Vick, mustard poultices and all that stuff.
If it’s hot and wet it needs to be through a drier pronto. Been there, got the T shirt.

They are not there to dry the stuff

 

[Dave488]

Just wondering how you got on with using the twinwall perforated pipe Spud, as i'm looking at using something similar this year, what depth of grain are you cooling and how long is your shed, and what size fan did you find to do the job, seen a photo on the martin lishman floorvent thread and looks exactly what we thniking of doing.

Our shed has a on floor drying system in the main 70ft span, but we have 25ft lean to's on each side that is fed by roof conveyor from our continuous flow drier, and i was thinking of basically putting a length of twinwall perforated pipe down the centre and up the back wall as you have done and mounting fan on the wall plate, its 100ft long and is approx 4.5m deep are you using 225mm pipe? Just mainly wondering what size fan i'm going to need?

 

[quattro]

Just wondering how you got on with using the twinwall perforated pipe Spud, as i'm looking at using something similar this year, what depth of grain are you cooling and how long is your shed, and what size fan did you find to do the job, seen a photo on the martin lishman floorvent thread and looks exactly what we thniking of doing.

Our shed has a on floor drying system in the main 70ft span, but we have 25ft lean to's on each side that is fed by roof conveyor from our continuous flow drier, and i was thinking of basically putting a length of twinwall perforated pipe down the centre and up the back wall as you have done and mounting fan on the wall plate, its 100ft long and is approx 4.5m deep are you using 225mm pipe? Just mainly wondering what size fan i'm going to need?

I store osr 25ft deep using 400or450twinwall no problem up to now
2 lenths down 50or60ft wide shed 120ft long
pipes go through rear wall and fan connected outside

 

[Dave488]

I store osr 25ft deep using 400or450twinwall no problem up to now
2 lenths down 50or60ft wide shed 120ft long
pipes go through rear wall and fan connected outside

Thanks for reply, what size fan are you using to get required airflow?

 

[Spud]

Just wondering how you got on with using the twinwall perforated pipe Spud, as i'm looking at using something similar this year, what depth of grain are you cooling and how long is your shed, and what size fan did you find to do the job, seen a photo on the martin lishman floorvent thread and looks exactly what we thniking of doing.

Our shed has a on floor drying system in the main 70ft span, but we have 25ft lean to's on each side that is fed by roof conveyor from our continuous flow drier, and i was thinking of basically putting a length of twinwall perforated pipe down the centre and up the back wall as you have done and mounting fan on the wall plate, its 100ft long and is approx 4.5m deep are you using 225mm pipe? Just mainly wondering what size fan i'm going to need?

We got on better than expected tbh (for once!)

The shed is 90' long but the pipe only comes the first 70'
Pipe is 6" perforated on the floor with unperforated upright, with a large pedestal fan on the top, blowing the hot air through a hole in the sheeting in the back wall of the shed.
The hard bit is keeping the pipe stationary when you fill the shed, and avoiding hitting it with the forklift emptying it. We have a couple of flags stuck in the grain to mark it, but two pipes in a shed that's 33' wide in each side with the dryer at the front makes hard work of things.
We'd like to dig the floor up & replace the perforated pipe with a vent, but that won't be this year!
Edit: Grain is max 12' deep. The distance between the pipes seems more critical than depth of grain

 

[Clive]

Fan control can save a LOT of money at current power prices - also brushless fan motors pay back is good

 

[Brisel]

I have run a Lishman system at 2 farms. It’s amazing how often they turn the fans on and off when you least expect when set to temperature differential. Grain was leaving the drier at 40 degrees, so we ran the cooling continuously and had to move 4 x 3 phase fans around twice that number of pedestals. Extractor fans at one end and inlet louvres at the other are critical and the fans are controlled by the same unit. This avoids the pedestal fans recycling warm damp air back through the heap.

Barn Owl Wireless

Barn Owl Wireless is the most advanced wireless grain monitoring and automatic cooling and drying control system.

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The drier is a more complicated decision. Don’t rule out a decent mobile type drier as modern ones have a high level of automation. You will need a decent hopper to feed it and some space for it to discharge itself. The level of capital you invest will depend on your land tenure security. Opico and Mechmar are the main mobile drier manufacturer/s to start with.

 

[quattro]

Thanks for reply, what size fan are you using to get required airflow?

I will look for you

 

[DieselRob]

Any suggestions for companies to supply vented panels/louvres and extractor fans? I always struggle to get my grain cool and I suspect it could be due to not getting enough fresh air in to the store

 

[Brisel]

Agricultural Supply Services in Glos

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

Generally the problems seem to come from warm grain not being cooled quick enough, which then warms up and sweats. Hence me thinking I need to make it easier to cool it sooner and quicker

Always a struggle when we don't seem to get temperatures under 15 through September and no frosts before Christmas.

Central Storage..
Just use the nice big shed as a dumping and loading pad.

I might get crucified by our existing members if I offer to extend our operating radius to Flamingo Land, although we used to have a member at Malton.

 

[Dave488]

I will look for you

Thanks