Warham Camp, Norfolk

delilah

Member
Warham Camp is an excellent example of an Iron Age fort. Free entry, great place for an educational wander and a picnic. On top of being a scheduled monument, it is also a SSSI specifically due to the tightly grazed chalk grassland and the rare flowers and butterflies that thus thrive.
In short; it delivers lots of Public Good.

Visited recently for the first time in a couple of years. What a mess. Waist high ragwort and thistles. There was a couple of families there but they were gaining little from it; the features of the fort are indistinct due to being obscured by overgrowth and there was no point leaving the path for a sit down as the thistles would have got you. A five minute walk through the jungle and back to the car. Good luck to whichever rare flora and fauna it is that needs a short sward.
In short; it desperately needs grazing.

The interpretation board says that the camp is part of the Holkham Estate, so I am sure that there is a management plan in place and we just happened to visit on a bad day.The point I want to make is a bigger one. There are thousands of such sites throughout the UK, and they all depend on being grazed.
As cattle and sheep head down the same dead end road as pigs and poultry – less units, concentrated in specific areas – so it will become ever more difficult for the guardians of heritage sites to find some mug farmer to keep it grazed. We have to reverse this trend before it gets past the point of no return, by encouraging new entrants and by rewarding the smaller farms that are more inclined to see a few acres of awkward ground as being something worth taking on. Critical Mass. Once you lose it, bloody difficult to get it back.
In short; all area based SFI money needs to go to Permanent Pasture, with a weighting in place such that the first xHa on any holding gets a far higher payment than the rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warham_Camp



warham 1.jpg


warham 3.jpg
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
In many cases such sites around here already rely on tiny "herds" of cattle run by wildlife trusts (using grants and charitable income to make them profitable despite their high labour cost, low output etc).

Back in my EA days I was asked several times if I'd be prepared to graze small ecological sites. They were all way more trouble than they were worth as grazing. 1 was 26 acres of Marsh crossed by footpaths. Another was well inside East London and hauling them in and out would have been a nightmare, let alone getting veterinary attention if it was needed.
 

Bracklandbarn

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Suffolk
This area of “awkward” ground surely isn’t an inconvenience for the estate who owns it, they could graze it themselves-after all they have their own sheep/ cattle. It’s many designations probably make it eligible for all sorts of environmental payments to do so?!
 

delilah

Member
In many cases such sites around here already rely on tiny "herds" of cattle run by wildlife trusts (using grants and charitable income to make them profitable despite their high labour cost, low output etc).

This is the crux of it. What will achieve the best outcome in terms of 'Public Money for Public Good'; funding organisations whose primary expertise may not be in the keeping of livestock, or providing support for the existing local livestock sector ?
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
This is the crux of it. What will achieve the best outcome in terms of 'Public Money for Public Good'; funding organisations whose primary expertise may not be in the keeping of livestock, or providing support for the existing local livestock sector ?

You make an interesting observation Delilah. Are you going to follow it up with Holkham? And ask about the management of Warham Camp? Seem plenty of contacts in the farming / conservation department who might engage. Might get a response compared to a random post on social media. Would be interesting to know if the Camp is subject to any management agreements.

Cheers.


 

delilah

Member
You make an interesting observation Delilah. Are you going to follow it up with Holkham? And ask about the management of Warham Camp? Seem plenty of contacts in the farming / conservation department who might engage. Might get a response compared to a random post on social media. Would be interesting to know if the Camp is subject to any management agreements.

Cheers.



As per the OP I don't want to personalize it, was just using Warham Camp as an example of the wider issue.
I would imagine there must be someone on here connected to Holkham, if they wanted to contribute to the wider discussion that would be good.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
As per the OP I don't want to personalize it, was just using Warham Camp as an example of the wider issue.
I would imagine there must be someone on here connected to Holkham, if they wanted to contribute to the wider discussion that would be good.


This is the crux of it. What will achieve the best outcome in terms of 'Public Money for Public Good'; funding organisations whose primary expertise may not be in the keeping of livestock, or providing support for the existing local livestock sector ?


Your post #10 copied above too me read as a comment on Holkham - if my interpretation of your post 'funding organisations' is the correct interpretation of what you meant to say. Maybe you could clarify for me? And it was my interpretation of your post #10 that led me to suggest asking Holkham direct.
 

Mixedupfarmer

Member
Location
Norfolk
Warham Camp is an excellent example of an Iron Age fort. Free entry, great place for an educational wander and a picnic. On top of being a scheduled monument, it is also a SSSI specifically due to the tightly grazed chalk grassland and the rare flowers and butterflies that thus thrive.
In short; it delivers lots of Public Good.

Visited recently for the first time in a couple of years. What a mess. Waist high ragwort and thistles. There was a couple of families there but they were gaining little from it; the features of the fort are indistinct due to being obscured by overgrowth and there was no point leaving the path for a sit down as the thistles would have got you. A five minute walk through the jungle and back to the car. Good luck to whichever rare flora and fauna it is that needs a short sward.
In short; it desperately needs grazing.

The interpretation board says that the camp is part of the Holkham Estate, so I am sure that there is a management plan in place and we just happened to visit on a bad day.The point I want to make is a bigger one. There are thousands of such sites throughout the UK, and they all depend on being grazed.
As cattle and sheep head down the same dead end road as pigs and poultry – less units, concentrated in specific areas – so it will become ever more difficult for the guardians of heritage sites to find some mug farmer to keep it grazed. We have to reverse this trend before it gets past the point of no return, by encouraging new entrants and by rewarding the smaller farms that are more inclined to see a few acres of awkward ground as being something worth taking on. Critical Mass. Once you lose it, bloody difficult to get it back.
In short; all area based SFI money needs to go to Permanent Pasture, with a weighting in place such that the first xHa on any holding gets a far higher payment than the rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warham_Camp



View attachment 982607

View attachment 982608
How is are area based SFI payments on permanent pasture going to help small farmers and new entrants? Surely the landowners will mop all the payments up as they do now, being under BPS and probably CSS, and tout it out for a bid on grazing, or stick a topper over it?
 

delilah

Member
How is are area based SFI payments on permanent pasture going to help small farmers and new entrants?

It is the weighting on payments that will achieve that. Under current proposals the basic grassland payment is £22/Ha, whether you have 10 Ha or 10,000 Ha. This needs amending thus:
First 40 Ha: £220/Ha.
40 - 400 Ha: £22/Ha
Over 400 Ha: £2/Ha.
Expanded on in the attached.
 

Attachments

  • ELMS and Critical Mass.pdf
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Mixedupfarmer

Member
Location
Norfolk
It is the weighting on payments that will achieve that. Under current proposals the basic grassland payment is £22/Ha, whether you have 10 Ha or 10,000 Ha. This needs amending thus:
First 40 Ha: £220/Ha.
40 - 400 Ha: £22/Ha
Over 400 Ha: £2/Ha.
Expanded on in the attached.
Will this not just cause rents to be higher as all the estates, RSPB etc block land up into 40ha ish blocks, at £220/ha plus starting rent, with loads of restrictions and little security?
 

delilah

Member
Will this not just cause rents to be higher as all the estates, RSPB etc block land up into 40ha ish blocks, at £220/ha plus starting rent, with loads of restrictions and little security?

There's plenty of mechanisms at Defra's disposal to prevent this, such as restriction to existing SBI number/ CPH number etc. Given the complexities of many of the proposals in the SFI i'm sure they would find this relatively simple.
 

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