Grandfather rights

[thesilentone]

So no you don't need tickets just adequate training.

Training and supervision is particularly important for all young people because of their relative inexperience and possible unfamiliarity with the working environment. You must also ensure that casual workers receive appropriate training and instruction. Induction training is particularly important for none or limited English speaking employees.

Details of recognised training courses can be found from your local training group, your local provider or through BAGMA on 01295 713 344 or by visiting www.bagma.com.

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The completion of training and assessment usually includes certification and/or a cc card sized ' ticket ' which is what everyone refers to. Mostly used on ' Safe Sites ' and must be in the operators possession at all times. On farm, as long as training and competency can be proved, not always the case though.

It is rare for the HSE or anyone to ask to see Competencies on farm, unless there is a reason like an accident, or some QA checks.

https://www.nfuonline.com/assets/6155

 

[Jackov Altraids]

It won’t take all day, NPTC is about two hours test including knowledeg questions and practical assessment. It’s the training that takes time. Would an operator of 50yrs know his ROPS, FOPS, SWLs, stamps on pallet forks, load centres, de rating values, his legal obligations as an employee and an operator, longitudinal and lateral instability causes and effects, live loads, load placement, undercutting technique, how to deem a pallet fork fit and safe for use, be able to list and carry out the pre start checks, post use checks,how to test the SLI on machine, explain all the controls etc etc.

How many on here would stop, apply handbrake and then boom out to stack boxes. They’re all in the test and all need to be done to show competenc. It’s then all been covered. Young 18yr olds are a lot easier to teach than experienced operators though, they’re used to learning and absorbing information.

Another worrying thing is that’s it’s the 50yr experience operators who jump out with engine running, drive with door open, boom right out, walk under raised boom, squeeze inbetween front of machine and a gate or worst still stand under the boom to open fertilizer bags suspended above the spreader. Give them the training, document it, review it at appropriate intervals and it’s up to them if they want to listen to it or carry on with their bad habits. As an employer they can only lead a horse to water....

A perfect description of why it is complete ball locks.

You are not teaching youngsters to be safe but to 'show competence'. This is potentially more dangerous than no training at all.
You are not teaching the experienced anything other than the answers they are supposed to give if an accident happens.

I'm not anti 'H&S' as there are thousands of people alive today because of improvements made but things will start getting more dangerous when people rely on a piece of paper to prove competence rather than ability.

 

[grainboy]

Very often find that the Training person, has never actually undertaken the job which he is preaching on, just a load of tick box directives,
Was on a Cpc Hgv course, one of our older members, did a quick tot up,
He presented a question to the Trainer, Who was about 25 yrs old,
How long have you been driving ?
Because there is over 400 yrs driving experience in the room,
Answer
Oh. I don’t hold a HgV license !!!!
Queue Laughter,

 

[john432]

Like many do, with a combine knife section on the end of a pole.

What about a seed corn bag?a few knots to untie to get it flowing, and often have to stop and tie up as only part of the bag is required. Humans will allways find ways of injurying or even killing themselves. I predict that soon people will need a competence course to own a kitchen knife.. diced veg, meat . mince. Sliced bread.. we are heading there.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Very often find that the Training person, has never actually undertaken the job which he is preaching on, just a load of tick box directives,
Was on a Cpc Hgv course, one of our older members, did a quick tot up,
He presented a question to the Trainer, Who was about 25 yrs old,
How long have you been driving ?
Because there is over 400 yrs driving experience in the room,
Answer
Oh. I don’t hold a HgV license !!!!
Queue Laughter,

I remember a phone-in where lots of questions were being put to a Policeman who was a driving specialist. He was excellent and his main tip was that for any awkward or weird road/ junction, you couldn't beat watching/ asking how the locals that travel it all the time approach it as they will know best.

 

[thesilentone]

For those who are skeptical, this is not new, it's been around for decades.

What the hell has the trainers experience got do with it, they don't make it up as they go along he/she is paid to train, the assessor is paid to asses, in most cases they themselves are trained, and have to prove they are competent to deliver the training/assessment.

Remember this is driven by basic H&S rules, but mainly Insurers. To many, it may appear to be a box ticking exercise, but whatever we think, it's irrelevant.

There are many contradictions in H&S, and the way to do things, however unless your in front of the beak trying to defend yourself and can give examples, then it really doesn't matter. The point is to never ever need to be there.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

For those who are skeptical, this is not new, it's been around for decades.

What the hell has the trainers experience got do with it, they don't make it up as they go along he/she is paid to train, the assessor is paid to asses, in most cases they themselves are trained, and have to prove they are competent to deliver the training/assessment.

Remember this is driven by basic H&S rules, but mainly Insurers. To many, it may appear to be a box ticking exercise, but whatever we think, it's irrelevant.

There are many contradictions in H&S, and the way to do things, however unless your in front of the beak trying to defend yourself and can give examples, then it really doesn't matter. The point is to never ever need to be there.

Imagine having a driving instructor that couldn't drive.
Chesley Sullenberger, the pilot of the Hudson river crash- plane saved everyone because he used experience not the flipping emergency file.

 

[Barleymow]

How the fudge can the test take all day and cost £300 ?

Last day one I did was over in 90 mins complete waste of time

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

Do I need a certificate to operate my loader tractor does anyone know ?

 

[Aftermaths]

Folk always seem happy enough to get their forklift and chainsaw tickets, but you are supposed to be able to prove you have been trained on any machine you use at work. Be it an angle grinder, tractor, walk behind lawnmower or even a power washer. It's not about ability it's about arse covering - local lad for example working for the council spent weeks cutting hedges with a pair of shears because he hadn't the ticket to use a hedge cutter.
It's the way it is nowadays and it won't go away, as for me, "must have left all me tickets in me other boilersuit guv"

 

[Nearly]

Do I need a certificate to operate my loader tractor does anyone know ?

I've seen you on it. I recommend a training course.

 

[thesilentone]

Do I need a certificate to operate my loader tractor does anyone know ?

From earlier in the thread:

THE LAW

Agricultural vehicles, trailers and trailed appliances are covered by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSW Act), which places a duty on companies and individuals to ensure that precautions are taken to make work as safe as practically possible. These vehicles and appliances are exempt from the legal testing requirements of many road vehicles, which puts the emphasis on the owner, to make sure their equipment is safe and in good working order. As more farming transport accidents occur off road than on, the high standards for road going vehicles should also be applied to those used off road. The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER) apply to any equipment that you use at work; this can include tractors, air compressors, chainsaws and even ladders. They require that equipment must be suitable for the task, properly maintained and guarded, and that adequate training and information about the equipment is available for employees. These Regulations apply to employers, the self-employed and any person in control of work equipment. This includes the hirer or even someone who lends a machine out. If these vehicles, trailers and trailed appliances are driven on the public highway, they must also comply with the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 and The Road Traffic Act as in regards to road worthy condition. If any vehicle, trailer or trailed appliances is stopped, any defects found would leave the driver and owner liable for prosecution by road traffic law enforcement agencies or Police.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

So how the hell are you to open a fert bag with out getting under the bag, if you do it from distance when the bag is nearly emtey the wind blows it and you end up with fertilizer on the floor.

By any other means of not getting under the boom or anything suspended. From the side with a longer handle? By standing on the tractor lift arms? I could quote statistics here but I feel I would be banging my head against the wall anyhow.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Do I need a certificate to operate my loader tractor does anyone know ?

Yes if you’re an employee to show training and instructions have been given.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

do i need a certificate to fart does anyone know?
I mean surely I could injure someone if it’s a volatile one

 

[Mur Huwcun]

A perfect description of why it is complete ball locks.

You are not teaching youngsters to be safe but to 'show competence'. This is potentially more dangerous than no training at all.
You are not teaching the experienced anything other than the answers they are supposed to give if an accident happens.

I'm not anti 'H&S' as there are thousands of people alive today because of improvements made but things will start getting more dangerous when people rely on a piece of paper to prove competence rather than ability.

But by teaching and demonstarting the dangers of things like live loads, blind corners, boom in wrong position (blocking mirror for example) travelling with load too high, travelling with boom out, operating with door open then the general knowledge of these things start to become more general knowledge among operators.

Only last year I tried suggesting to an ‘experienced’ operator that travelling with tractor loader bucket right in the air full of muck over speed bumps was not a good idea to be told not that he knew what he was doing and it’s the only way you can see where you’re going

 

[had e nuff]

do i need a certificate to fart does anyone know?
I mean surely I could injure someone if it’s a volatile one

Our lass recons i nearly blew a hole in her leg in bed the other night lol. Blamed her homemade veg soup.

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

Yes if you’re an employee to show training and instructions have been given.

I’m self employed with no staff - the only ticket I have is a return bus ticket to Wetherby .

 

[spanners and hammers]

wetherby ,, have you checked the driver is trained the bus is serviced etc god you such a reckless person

 

[Drillman]

No matter how many risk assessments and HSE rules there are you can’t legislate against stupidity.

Common sense and spacial awareness is a brilliant thing but unfortunately it doesn't come with a ticket nowadays....