What is wrong with returning to ploughing?

[Warp Land Farmer]

Horsch c08’s converted to a metcalf type point are cheaper than most things.
Cost of drills is another fallacy people tell themselves to convince themselves they can’t do it. I know some who have done it incredibly cheaply.

Where are they all for sale?

 

[ajd132]

Where are they all for sale?

There has been absolutely loads for sale over the last few years and been bought up by people who have converted them for no till.

 

[Warp Land Farmer]

There has been absolutely loads for sale over the last few years and been bought up by people who have converted them for no till.

But right now? Say 20 500 acre farmers wish to take your broad acre advise and go no till. Kitting up would be an expensive exercise as I doubt there are 20 economical drills available for conversion, making them look at new of which the cost are eye watering for putting seed into an inch of dirt. It’s just not as simple to go out and kit up economically as you allude to.

 

[Bury the Trash]

There has been absolutely loads for sale over the last few years and been bought up by people who have converted them for no till.

Co8 is 8 meters ? I could make 3 out of that !

2.5 meters would be fine for us. Would be a fair bit of scrap / spares.
Mind you Could fill it with seed first thing and drill all day

 

[snarling bee]

View attachment Scan20201218203228.pdf

We have just had some soil analyses done for the extremes of our soils. The soil textures are marked. Most would be just to the north of 'pretty sweet'
In terms of interpretation, where should we be with CO2 soil respiration?

 

[ajd132]

Co8 is 8 meters ? I could make 3 out of that !

2.5 meters would be fine for us. Would be a fair bit of scrap / spares.
Mind you Could fill it with seed first thing and drill all day

More time for family/pub!

 

[Devon James]

Sub £5,000 Horsch/Metcalfe drill in the classifieds today unless bury the trash has bought it already

 

[yellow belly]

In my lifetime the farm here has been ploughed at various depths in all decades except the last one
tine cultivated some times minimal somtimes deeper in all decades except the last one
direct drilling has been used in every decade except the 1960s
notill now since 2009 on some fields most fields since 2012
spring crops now on around 50% of fields with cover crops some paid for by stewardship
winter ploughing as practiced in the past releases valuable nutrients

drainage followed by regular mole draining is the the one constant ,done in the spring now too hard and dry in most autumns before drilling
with out it 20 years grass followed by 5 year arable or just grass
some field have 5 or 6 different drainage systems going Back to the enclosure act of 1790s
non Plough systems have been around since before the steam engine

As stated by some above ploughing to day is not the same as plough was before 1960
the biggest problem I see with reverting to ploughing is that there is not a plough made no days that would do the jibe of the ploughs pre 1960
I would want shallow depth narrow furrows full discs and skimmers gps on land 5 km max speed
75 % spring cropping

currently on 50% spring cropping no till
with less weeds and pests than 20 years ago
drill winter crops at similar time to 1980 to 2000 ignore the later is better mantra
spring crops similar times to the 1950 to 1970 ignore earlier is the only way

 

[Warp Land Farmer]

Sub £5,000 Horsch/Metcalfe drill in the classifieds today unless bury the trash has bought it already

Can’t find it, could you link it please?

 

[Bury the Trash]

More time for family/pub!

Family , yes, and friends, could travel more to the ones that are further afield

would save some time true, because as we all know the ploughing is not the end of the job but a direct drill wont also fence, hang gates, pick lambs etc etc iyswim... there always something that needs doing...
but if the cap fits....

 

[Renaultman]

View attachment 927805

We have just had some soil analyses done for the extremes of our soils. The soil textures are marked. Most would be just to the north of 'pretty sweet'
In terms of interpretation, where should we be with CO2 soil respiration?

I'm between 'could be worse' and 'play dough'

 

[Brisel]

https://www.agriaffaires.co.uk/results/1/horsch+co.html

 

[Drillman]

https://www.agriaffaires.co.uk/results/1/horsch+co.html

Nowt much cheap there

 

[Flat 10]

There’s a part of me that thinks a lot of smaller growers like ploughing as it fills the days up with busyness and they are maybe unwilling to embrace no till as they may well become part time farmers, which is a subject many could not face, ignoring that the free time could be used to earn money which could ensure their survival, it’s going to be tough the next few years as support drops no doubt.

I used to like ploughing when I was a young hourly paid tractor driver ploughing 1000acres a year with a 5f Rev on a 125hp tractor, although it wrecked my back, now I’m a bit older, have a family and am responsible for the farm making money I only use the plough for some contracting on an organic farm, or to be precise my Tractor driver ploughs on contract, I did a weekend four years ago on a plough and would happily never use one again, I also would not like to go back to the period in my life after ploughing that consisted of Baling everything, Solo or Topdown light soils, then pressing and rolling them just to get the Rapid to work, looking back that was madness too, I’m now dd OSR and beans, single shallow cult for WW (mainly for BG and slugs) and SB, I’ve not bought any kit to do this other than a set of VOS openers for the drill, any CC’s are paid for under CS and grazed off with sheep, KISS is the aim here !!

I spend too much time on a tractor and I’m always looking to do less. However I’m a young business basically all tenanted or farming on CFA and there’s a tightness to things.... yeah I could afford an old DD drill but I couldn’t afford a 50ac disaster with no crop on. Many (not all) don’t realise how hard it is to change, it’s not that I don’t want it to work or that I don’t think it can (but quite a sceptic admittedly, was planning on going to groundswell last summer to try and learn something) but just I can’t afford many if any fudge ups. Do I need bigger balls and more skills? Maybe but while I’m off farm trying to acquire them nothing is getting done and since I’m the main everything nothing is getting done. It’s clearly not impossible, just fudging difficult to change.

 

[Brisel]

Can you afford not to consider change?

 

[Flat 10]

Can you afford not to consider change?

I’m considering! That’s the easy bit

 

[Renaultman]

I spend too much time on a tractor and I’m always looking to do less. However I’m a young business basically all tenanted or farming on CFA and there’s a tightness to things.... yeah I could afford an old DD drill but I couldn’t afford a 50ac disaster with no crop on. Many (not all) don’t realise how hard it is to change, it’s not that I don’t want it to work or that I don’t think it can (but quite a sceptic admittedly, was planning on going to groundswell last summer to try and learn something) but just I can’t afford many if any fudge ups. Do I need bigger balls and more skills? Maybe but while I’m off farm trying to acquire them nothing is getting done and since I’m the main everything nothing is getting done. It’s clearly not impossible, just fudging difficult to change.

Change was organic for me and still is (but not the style of farming but never say never) it started with drilling after potatoes and OSR where it seems sacrilegious to bury that lovely soil and bring clay up. Like you I work away from the farm a lot and can't afford a big failure. I started off with a used Simba Xpress and still using the combi until the Vaderstad turned up. The Xpress was £10,000 CW with seeder. I still have it now, then the Vaderstad just kind of fell in my lap. The time and cost savings are substantial and if you know your land you will know if it's going right or not. I certainly wouldn't get rid of the plough combi until you are happy with the replacement I still have mine now and still use it if required.

 

[Cowcorn]

But right now? Say 20 500 acre farmers wish to take your broad acre advise and go no till. Kitting up would be an expensive exercise as I doubt there are 20 economical drills available for conversion, making them look at new of which the cost are eye watering for putting seed into an inch of dirt. It’s just not as simple to go out and kit up economically as you allude to.

Theres a total beauty of a JD 750 A on the classifieds . Unfortunately its priced at 38 grand probably plus the vat . Doubt if Santa will be bringing it to me this year
You see 220 acres wont allow a major investement in just one machine but by Christ she is a beauty . I could of course buy it and go contract farming like every other underworked no tiller but then who would milk the cows ??? Or maybe i should give them the road and convert to cover crops for the little " extra" power that gets the yield / ha into double figures Decisions, Decisions ....... But @Brisel im at least thinking about the future of cropping but i have a bad feeling it could be a long road to the promised land ..... but then that 750a and the way she might look at ye !!! Who knows !!!

 

[Renaultman]

Theres a total beauty of a JD 750 A on the classifieds . Unfortunately its priced at 38 grand probably plus the vat . Doubt if Santa will be bringing it to me this year
You see 220 acres wont allow a major investement in just one machine but by Christ she is a beauty . I could of course buy it and go contract farming like every other underworked no tiller but then who would milk the cows ??? Or maybe i should give them the road and convert to cover crops for the little " extra" power that gets the yield / ha into double figures Decisions, Decisions ....... But @Brisel im at least thinking about the future of cropping but i have a bad feeling it could be a long road to the promised land ..... but then that 750a and the way she might look at ye !!! Who knows !!!

What about a Simtech, you could get a new 3m box drill for less than that. If I'd had a crystal ball I would have bought a new 4m instead of the used Vaddy had I known the technology grant was coming back. I do like my system disc though.

 

[Brisel]

Theres a total beauty of a JD 750 A on the classifieds . Unfortunately its priced at 38 grand probably plus the vat . Doubt if Santa will be bringing it to me this year
You see 220 acres wont allow a major investement in just one machine but by Christ she is a beauty . I could of course buy it and go contract farming like every other underworked no tiller but then who would milk the cows ??? Or maybe i should give them the road and convert to cover crops for the little " extra" power that gets the yield / ha into double figures Decisions, Decisions ....... But @Brisel im at least thinking about the future of cropping but i have a bad feeling it could be a long road to the promised land ..... but then that 750a and the way she might look at ye !!! Who knows !!!

What is the promised land for you? It’s not all about no till.