Foliar Boron - wheat
- Thread starter Avenue11
- Start date
Cereals need a little boron, Too much is toxic. Tissue test to know what it needs before ordering trace elements & ignore the sales bumf of distributors with a vested interest to sell you this stuff because it has a higher profit margin for them than pesticides.
My high pH soils need boron so I give wheat a litre in March/April, depending on what else I'm applying at the same time. Boron is supposed to be immobile in the plant, so depending on test results I may split that litre, half March half May/June.
My high pH soils need boron so I give wheat a litre in March/April, depending on what else I'm applying at the same time. Boron is supposed to be immobile in the plant, so depending on test results I may split that litre, half March half May/June.
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Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Cereals need a little boron, Too much is toxic. Tissue test to know what it needs before ordering trace elements & ignore the sales bumf of distributors with a vested interest to sell you this stuff because it has a higher profit margin for them than pesticides.
My high pH soils need boron so I give wheat a litre in March/April, depending on what else I'm applying at the same time. Boron is supposed to be immobile in the plant, so depending on test results I may split that litre, half March half May/June.
Where and with whom did this fashion for applying Boron to cereals start? Which advisory companies? I observed TFF cropping thread last year had a fair bit about Boron and also Zinc as foliar nutrients. I am behind the curve by the looks of it.
- Location
- S E Glos
As said last time this came up, cereals don't need boron treatment. No-one's ever seen boron deficiency in a cereal plant except in a text book or micronutrient merchant's leaflets. As Brisel said it's toxic to cereals so the requirement is a trace of a trace (of a trace).
However it's going to be very difficult to withstand the pressure from salesmen to apply these things this spring.
However it's going to be very difficult to withstand the pressure from salesmen to apply these things this spring.
Thank you very much Brisel! I was advised by my distributor to test foliar boron. Half liter Yara Bortrac at T0 and half litre at T2. I will test on 10 % of my wheat. I'm affraid of toxicity because I didn't use boron till now.
At this rates and timings do I risk to damage the wheat? Soil PH 6.1-6.6, clay soils. I don't know my boron levels.
At this rates and timings do I risk to damage the wheat? Soil PH 6.1-6.6, clay soils. I don't know my boron levels.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Do we know the supporting data NRM use to calibrate their advisory chart. I anticipate this year with poor crops some interest in micro trace elements. This thread only five posts in shows a willingness the apply Boron. Note to self - must get on message.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Cereals need a little boron, Too much is toxic. Tissue test to know what it needs before ordering trace elements & ignore the sales bumf of distributors with a vested interest to sell you this stuff because it has a higher profit margin for them than pesticides.
My high pH soils need boron so I give wheat a litre in March/April, depending on what else I'm applying at the same time. Boron is supposed to be immobile in the plant, so depending on test results I may split that litre, half March half May/June.
By the way what did you do to correct the almost excessive levels of Sulphur and Manganese. I have seen evidence excesses of these reduce yields quite considerably.
Er, see my NRM tissue test results - every year I test wheat & osr in March between fertiliser/spray doses & boron comes up as low. Simon Trenary at Hutchinsons has lots of clients testing & he sees this regularly. I expect you'll tell me that you've got years of trials data showing no response to boron (and I would believe you) but if you had these test results consistently, what would you do when 15% boron is £2/litre and 1 litre would fix that? Sure, it can add up when you're chucking in 2-4 products per pass which then antagonise something more expensive or scorch the plant.
No, I must admit I don't know the supporting data behind NRM's testing, nor know what their agenda would be beyond keeping test costs down. I'm here to learn, so please point me in the direction of enlightenment...! Soil organic matter was 6.7% (LOI) so I assumed it was pH causing the problem
Nothing, other than growing a crop to take some off. Even Mulder's nutrient interaction chart is confusing, should I apply other nutrients that antagonise Mn and S. Of course I am striving to improve soil health to the point that the soil then feeds the crop what it needs but it's just baby steps along the way. To be fair, the crop had had a good dose of N+S fertiliser 3 weeks before, giving 20 kg of SO3. No Mn though.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I am here to learn to which is why I posed you the questions I did.
And why I am equally interested in the excessive level of nutrient as the deficiencies, as I assume NRM database has supportive data for the levels coloured as excessive as well as deficient.
And in answer to your question I am afraid I do not know where to direct you to enlightenment, other than a couple of AHDB reviews on micro nutrition. Beyond those I am ignorant and as I say follow these threads with much interest to ensure I am up with current agronomy.
Cheers.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Hi, no I do not have any trials data to qoute. Partly the reason I was in effect posing that question to you.
And please do not be defensive, my comments are not intended to be trickery for the purpose of an agenda. I am genuinely interested in some solid evidence to support usage of micro nutrients giving yield responses in reaction to foliar testing.
I do not know this chap Simon you refer to so again do not want to get drawn into an internet forum battle. I do not dispute he has several clients that undertake leaf tissue tests regularly and sees the laboratory report a low level of Boron. As you do by sounds of it. But to assume a deficiency is suggesting a correlation with yield benefit. May I be so bold to say without evidence it might be correlation not necessarily causation, but as I say each to their own. Could it possibly be the trigger levels used by NRM are incorrect? So with that I have answered my own question - I need to find out from NRM the data to support the trigger levels.
The following is a nice example I always love of correlation not causation!
Sleeping with one's shoes on is strongly correlated with waking up with a headache.Therefore, sleeping with one's shoes on causes headache
I must put an order in for YARA Bortrac before it goes short.
Best wishes,
I have no reason to fight with you, or anyone else for that matter.
I see nothing wrong with your questions. I will email @Fromebridge to see if he has some TAG data on the matter. No doubt I'll be back in here saying "there's no independent data to support a yield response!"
I also apply foliar Mg with the flag leaf and earwash fungicides but there's no data to support that either. What I do intend to try is some post harvest grain sample testing to see what is lacking. I've got a bit of a trial with some Solvita soil health tests so it would make sense to connect them up on a mix of historically good yielding fields, mediocre ones & poor ones. I will report back on these in the autumn.
What I do not support is the trade telling us all that we need to feed our backward crops lots of multi mineral tonics. Quark, anyone? That'll do nicely, sir.
The trouble with micronutrients as I see it is that we could test the same field several times and get different results according to the weather and even the time of day. Further to this there is then a difference between a test showing a micronutrient deficiency and there being an economic response to an application of any particular nutrient. Our soils don't change very quickly, just taking Boron as an example in a particular field or soil type if a susceptible crop such as OSR shows deficiency then there might be a response in a less susceptible crop such as wheat. But do your own trials and draw your own conclusions, I think this year there will be a lot of snake oils sold because of 'poor rooting' etc. These products need shoving where the sun doesn't shine, get a bit of N spread ASAP and nurse backward crops, margin is king.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Hi, yes be interesting to see what others have to say. The most recent AHDB Review attached.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Be interested to hear the results from these.
MNBVCXZ
Member
- Location
- Central Southern UK
Thank you. Hardly a ringing sales endorsement for trace elements!
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deleted user 837354
Member
Not convinced doing something just because some dude from Hutch does is much of an endorsement.
Used to get loads of soil test results showing dodgy results. Would no doubt get the same if I tissue tested. You will go around the bend and spend big money if you worried about them all.
Need to farm by eye and what is in front of you. That is how it was done years ago and your yields are no different today. Worth meddling with foliar manganese etc sometimes as it is cheap and I have saved crops a lot of pain with them but its not something I would do every year on every field.
As usual its up to the farmer. His trainset. But no way would I be comfortable saying go and spray boron and magnesium and what have you over 2000 acres.
Used to get loads of soil test results showing dodgy results. Would no doubt get the same if I tissue tested. You will go around the bend and spend big money if you worried about them all.
Need to farm by eye and what is in front of you. That is how it was done years ago and your yields are no different today. Worth meddling with foliar manganese etc sometimes as it is cheap and I have saved crops a lot of pain with them but its not something I would do every year on every field.
As usual its up to the farmer. His trainset. But no way would I be comfortable saying go and spray boron and magnesium and what have you over 2000 acres.
Fair points and well worth looking deeper. The dude from Hutch only confirmed that my findings are commonplace around here. I don't buy much from them and nothing from him. Boron and magnesium came from another distributor. I'm just taking Liebig's Law of the Minimum and applying it for a couple of quid/ha.
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