Sheep Worrying Conviction

[Highland Mule]

Lot of misinformation, assumptions and downright lies on this thread.

a dog doesn't have to be on a lead (or even within a few feet of the owner to be "under control"

The law requires "close control", not just "control", so yes I agree there is misinformation in this thread - mostly in your post though.

I'd advise you to read the law through again before you give out advice too, as you'll see the exemptions for working dogs that I detailed up thread.

 

[Dry Rot]

I've never claimed to, but I certainly wouldn't use someone else's sheep as temptation if I was going to.

Lot of misinformation, assumptions and downright lies on this thread.

Farmers DO NOT have a right to shot any dog in the same field as their sheep. Would you shoot a pack of hounds if the hunt went in the wrong field? Or your neighbour's sheep dog if the neighbour stopped by for a chat. No, because the dog is under control, and as has been said, a dog doesn't have to be on a lead (or even within a few feet of the owner to be "under control"

"Six of ewes had dead lambs inside them, which I would attribute to recent dog worrying" Ewes only lose lambs du to dog worrying, do they?

And as for expecting the police to take someone to Court over an incident that didn't even require a vet to attend-WTF!

This is the message I was attempting to get across, but failed badly. I have shot dogs that were out of control but have also been complimented many times for how well my dogs are trained and behave. It is a pity that some feel threatened by seeing any dog off the lead and don't seem to have ever experienced any well trained ones.

 

[Highland Mule]

This is the message I was attempting to get across, but failed badly. I have shot dogs that were out of control but have also been complimented many times for how well my dogs are trained and behave. It is a pity that some feel threatened by seeing any dog off the lead and don't seem to have ever experienced any well trained ones.

Your message was clear, but doesn't align with the law and doesn't recognise the harm that a dog can do. I have no doubt that your dogs are under your control, but if they are in the same enclosure as someone else's animals (with some exceptions) then they are not in close control and are legally worrying the sheep. As I wrote, there's black and white and shades of grey but if there is a dog standing on the same grass as my sheep and it's not at heel then I have the right to stop it.

I'd recommend any keeper of sheep to make themselves familiar with the actual words of law and not rely on the interpretation of anyone on here.

 

[Forkdriver]

My father didn't take prisoners sheep worrying. He was an excellent shot. Dogs disappeared. No need for confrontation.
A neighbouring farmers sheep dog got in amongst his ewes. He phoned him and he said his dog was at home. He wasn't happy when his dog never returned.
Justice delivered swiftly.

 

[Moors Lad]

We once gave an old guy a second chance after his dog was chasing our sheep (witnesses too). The next time it did it (his wife this time) we reported it, police took her to court where she came a cock and bull story about it slipping the collar and got her hand slapped "because it hadn`t done it before". The thing that really struck me was that I thought she had more character than to lie in a magistrates court. Reckon she`d pleaded guilty as the first we knew of the case was when we read about it in the local rag.
Moral of the story ... Always report a worrying incident to the police and get an incident number - if it happens again you`ve got a record of it happening.

 

[shumungus]

My father didn't take prisoners sheep worrying. He was an excellent shot. Dogs disappeared. No need for confrontation.
A neighbouring farmers sheep dog got in amongst his ewes. He phoned him and he said his dog was at home. He wasn't happy when his dog never returned.
Justice delivered swiftly.

Round here it's like the Bermuda Triangle for dogs, keeps the owners on their toes.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

I had exactly this, neighbours dog got in three times, no physical damage but the upsets enough, bloke wasn’t really interested, arrogant fecker!! Third time I dragged the dog back I told him in no uncertain terms I’d shoot it next time, no questions!!! Police are useless, not had any trouble since

For those forced into shooting a worrying dog just make sure you don't botch the job, we have a legal defense to allow killing a dog that can not be stopped any other means but wound it and the law is rather less favorable.

Always have a second cartridge up the spout?

 

[neilo]

Always have a second cartridge up the spout?

…and if you’re as good a shot as me, a couple of spares in your pocket.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

It’s a tetchy subject. I have no issue with well behaved dogs not being on leads. It’s the definition of well behaved that is open too interpretation. Some people claim that while Tiddles is racing around the middle of a field while they are at one side watching sheep vault fences in all directions it is still “under control” I don’t bother much until I actually see worrying going on. The big national trust property next door ensures we see plenty.
1) always make an attempt too catch the dog. (But I’ve got back issues documented at the doctors so can’t run very fast)
2) always shout “stop” at the dog just before you pull the trigger (local Bobby told me that)
3) shoot too kill. No need for suffering.
4) the moment the dog is dead ring the police and report it. That way you are covered.
As for getting pictures of worrying, bobby said they are good but they accept that it’s your job too protect your livestock, not stand and take photos wasting valuable seconds when you could be stopping the dog grabbing your sheep.
The last one I shot started in the NT property, chased a lamb over an 8ft stone wall onto my property. That counts as completely out of control. As it went over the wall I raced home for the gun, eventually found it with the lamb cornered up under a tree. I shot the dog just as it lunged at the lamb. Great big ridgeback type dog. 1 bite would have totalled the lamb in the right place. Put the 2nd barrel in just too be certain. Took pictures of the wall, where the dog was shot and that in relation too where it “got away”. Rural police were on site bloody quick, took statements (me, 2 park rangers & 2 owners) took more photos. Issued owners with a notice too pay the costs incurred. Took me too one side and educated me about how you charge for a worrying do. Tripled what I was going too ask for and he handled everything from there!! Didn’t include my name but pictures and warning posts were all over Cheshire police Facebook later that day!
I’ve got a problem one at the moment, new too the area. Youngish dog, lots of energy. I haven’t caught it yet but they’ve had warnings and the rural police know it’s going on. I’ve been told too get it shot, then ring them straight away, get some more publicity going on it. I’ve only ever managed too extract costs twice from owners myself. If the police are involved it’s sooo much easier too get your money.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

…and if you’re as good a shot as me, a couple of spares in your pocket.

Back before they reformed the firearms laws Grandad had a 5 shot pump. He loves telling folk about when my Uncle used all 5 at one German shepherd and all 5 missed and the dog carried on thankfully the dog ran past Dad, first shot bowled it over. That provided pee taking material for ages I’m told!

 

[sheep breeder]

That was the mistake you made giving the dog back, should have took care of the problem at the start. Court and bad blood with neighbours will go on.
Locally a guy moved into a rented house with 3 big dogs and worked during the day, when he came home from work let his dogs out for a run in the country side and locked them back in before going to bed, one Saturday morning he toured all the local houses looking for his valuable dogs, then posters in the shop, Facebook etc and his dogs never returned. His dogs found their way into a hole on a building site belonging to a farmer who had sheep run by dogs. No police or any grief from the do gooders. Lead injection and say nothing.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Always have a second cartridge up the spout?

I went to college with a fellow who had been in the Rhodesian Paratroopers during the war there. He used to talk about "double tap", they used SLR rifles and always put two rounds out in quick succession in case the first missed, so maybe that is the way to do it.

 

[Red dogs]

Not wanting to upset anyone or start an argument, but just wanted to say I was once told by a police officer that if you were in your truck or on your quad when you came across a dog worrying stock it would be a total accident in the eyes of the law if you were trying to chase said dog away from the stock and ( by mistake!!) ran it over and killed it, and there would be no worries about getting into trouble, he was a bloody good rural crimes officer

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Not wanting to upset anyone or start an argument, but just wanted to say I was once told by a police officer that if you were in your truck or on your quad when you came across a dog worrying stock it would be a total accident in the eyes of the law if you were trying to chase said dog away from the stock and ( by mistake!!) ran it over and killed it, and there would be no worries about getting into trouble, he was a bloody good rural crimes officer

One of ours said the same

 

[shumungus]

As has been posted on another thread here are the NSA guidelines.

Sheep Worrying | National Sheep Association

Advice for dog owners on the risk of Sheep Worrying from the National Sheep Association.

www.nationalsheep.org.uk

 

[shumungus]

Had a read through it and it appears there are different interpretations of 'out of control' dogs in each of the 4 areas in the UK. For once here in NI seems to be the most straight forward.
Under the Dogs (Northern Ireland) Order 1983, it is an offence to allow a dog on any land containing livestock unless the dog is under control. The Order defines ‘under control’ as ‘restrained by a chain or other sufficient leash held by a person exercising proper control over the dog’. The Order also states that if a dog worries sheep (attacks or kills sheep or chases them in a way that may cause injury, suffering or financial loss to their owner) the person in charge of that dog is guilty of an offence.

 

[Forkdriver]

I went to college with a fellow who had been in the Rhodesian Paratroopers during the war there. He used to talk about "double tap", they used SLR rifles and always put two rounds out in quick succession in case the first missed, so maybe that is the way to do it.

I was at college with a chap who got killed in the troubles in what was then Rhodesia. A lovely country ruined by the political successors.

 

[betweenthelines]

I have read the NSA guidelines and the relevant legislation.

A dog has to be in the act of worrying sheep and there has to be no other way of stopping the dog before the farmer has a right to shoot it. Whilst in certain circumstances a dog may be deemed to be "out of control" this is not sufficient grounds to shoot it. The definitions of "under close control" and a "working dog" are also vague and, I suspect may need to be evaluated in Court on a case by case basis. While an untrained domestic pet, not used to being allowed to run in a field may be "out of control" when a couple of metres away from the owner, many dogs are well trained and under control even when 50 metres or more away from the owner. In fact, I know of one dog trainer who regularly exercises up to a dozen dogs in fields containing livestock with absolutely no complaints from the farmer.

 

[Forkdriver]

I was talking about dogs running loose without owners present. I think that you would be pretty heartless to just shoot without trying to stop them (dog not owner).

 

[JSmith]

Depends how fecked off you are by constantly having your stock disturbed!! We’ve tried everything in the past to educate the owners, spoken with them, put signs up, dealt with police!! They just pull the signs down an carry on oblivious to the stress they cause man or beast!! I’d always try an stop the dog first but honestly I think where we have land that they need one shooting for them to get the message!! The public are ignorant