Tractor hp options

[Against_the_grain]

Why do manufacturers give such a range of horsepower on tractors that have the same engines/transmissions etc. For example the case magnum / nh T8 rangegoes from 250 to 380 with as far as I am aware exactly the same components. It presumably doesn't cost any more to get it to the higher power so why even offer the smaller power?

 

[agri knives]

Why do manufacturers give such a range of horsepower on tractors that have the same engines/transmissions etc. For example the case magnum / nh T8 rangegoes from 250 to 380 with as far as I am aware exactly the same components. It presumably doesn't cost any more to get it to the higher power so why even offer the smaller power?

Fuel consumption .

 

[snipe]

Sometimes there is differences in gearbox and shafts. But mainly they set their price so much per hp

 

[Frankzy]

Gearbox components, shafts, bearings and pistons are all things that could be of differing ratings even on otherwise identical tractors.

It presumably doesn't cost any more to get it to the higher power so why even offer the smaller power?

It's called price discrimination, an essentially identical product, from the manufacturers point of view, is provided at different price levels to get those who can pay more for the product to do so.

One really good example is Tesla.
You can spec a Tesla with a battery capacity of 100, 90, 75 etc, but all three of those models will be equipped with a 100 kwh battery because it's cheaper to make one kind of battery rather than three. The lower speced ones are simply limited via software..

 

[dave mountain]

Warranty costs. On average the lower horsepower models of the same range will suffer less breakdowns. In addition there will be other differences, the wheels and tyres will be different, drawbar & linkage lift will be different etc.

 

[Barleycorn]

Watch out, we bought a Case 115, promised that it was the same transmission as the 130, so they fueled it up to 130. Clutch packs went, apparently 115 has smaller clutch packs. Think they swung it on warranty though, can't remember.

 

[Brisel]

Not all the components are the same inside. The smaller models may have the same chassis, engine blocks etc but the internals will sometimes be different. The example above of different clutch plates is a good one. When engines are bought in from a 3rd party then often they are just derated to match the desired output.

It's a balance between tooling costs on the production lines and the pricing points in a competitive market.

 

[rusty]

I bought a John Deere 6145R instead of a 6155R as it was about 4K cheaper and could see nothing different in the specs apart from the horse power. I can get it remapped by Derv Doctor for £850 . When I spoke to him he said he could see no difference in the software between the 2 models so the only difference maybe the sticker on the bonnet.

 

[Farma Parma]

6485 larger frame massey has less clutch packs in the PTO drive line i was told years ago over its bigger hp brother the 6495 same engine, but essentially identical trans if in D6 or VT spec.
thats just one thing but am sure there will be similar stories on other brands.

 

[Farma Parma]

I bought a John Deere 6145R instead of a 6155R as it was about 4K cheaper and could see nothing different in the specs apart from the horse power. I can get it remapped by Derv Doctor for £850 . When I spoke to him he said he could see no difference in the software between the 2 models so the only difference maybe the sticker on the bonnet.

i dont know why as a min there isnt 25hp between models who is bothered nowerdays for 10/15hp increases

 

[Farma Parma]

Watch out, we bought a Case 115, promised that it was the same transmission as the 130, so they fueled it up to 130. Clutch packs went, apparently 115 has smaller clutch packs. Think they swung it on warranty though, can't remember.

Best advice ignor what salesmen say & just buy the biggest you can afford but preferably biggest in the range & leave well alone.

 

[dowcow]

There might also be difference in radiator sizes and fluid capacities, along with filter sizes and servicing costs with higher power models. I would have thought a tractor running at 380 rather than 250 would use different injectors and fuel pumps too.

 

[adam_farming]

When in the US I noticed more lower-range models around than over here, for example JD 8R series, over here would be mostly 8360R/8370R whereas I think I saw most of the range at one point or another over there, for example we had an 8295R and 8320R on grain chasers.

Is it right to think that having a lower range model would be more reliable on some parts than the top of the range?
Sticking with a JD example, they have a 6250R, 7250R and 8245R all putting out (near enough) the same power but through different frames. The 6250R is top of the range so in theory everything is at or near it's limits, whereas the 8245R is only putting 250hp through the same frame as an 8400R, so assuming that at least some common parts, they only have two thirds of the power and strain so should last longer? Same I guess with Fendt, having 724, 824 and 924, all 240hp but through different frame sizes.

I know there's a lot more to it than this like weight, transmissions available etc but its something I've often thought about.

It would be interesting to compare prices too, so what is the cheapest way to buy a 250hp John Deere, 6, 7 or 8R?

 

[Brisel]

There was a comparison of the 6250R and 7250R in Farmers Weekly a while ago. The 7250R was a few grand more expensive but it was hard to compare like with like as both machines had different transmissions. https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/tractors/video-on-test-john-deere-6250r-v-7250r

 

[adam_farming]

There was a comparison of the 6250R and 7250R in Farmers Weekly a while ago. The 7250R was a few grand more expensive but it was hard to compare like with like as both machines had different transmissions. https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/tractors/video-on-test-john-deere-6250r-v-7250r

Another in depth scientific machinery test from the yellow peril The 7R had an £11k weight package which JD "have only sold 1 in the UK so far" so prices excluding that weren't far different really, certainly within 10%.

 

[Nunes1964]

When in the US I noticed more lower-range models around than over here, for example JD 8R series, over here would be mostly 8360R/8370R whereas I think I saw most of the range at one point or another over there, for example we had an 8295R and 8320R on grain chasers.

Is it right to think that having a lower range model would be more reliable on some parts than the top of the range?
Sticking with a JD example, they have a 6250R, 7250R and 8245R all putting out (near enough) the same power but through different frames. The 6250R is top of the range so in theory everything is at or near it's limits, whereas the 8245R is only putting 250hp through the same frame as an 8400R, so assuming that at least some common parts, they only have two thirds of the power and strain so should last longer? Same I guess with Fendt, having 724, 824 and 924, all 240hp but through different frame sizes.

I know there's a lot more to it than this like weight, transmissions available etc but its something I've often thought about.

It would be interesting to compare prices too, so what is the cheapest way to buy a 250hp John Deere, 6, 7 or 8R?

The 6R Series have a much smaller engine (6.8l)!

 

[daveydiesel1]

The 6R Series have a much smaller engine (6.8l)!

Hard to believe that the 6.8 used to max at around 160hp at a guess, now its 250, does a 6250r have boost if so then itl be knocking on the door on 300hp before being remapped.

 

[DrDunc]

Hard to believe that the 6.8 used to max at around 160hp at a guess, now its 250, does a 6250r have boost if so then itl be knocking on the door on 300hp before being remapped.

You must be a young pup

I remember the astonishing grunt of the 7.5l in the range topping 8340 fords

They were 125hp

Admittedly zetor was showing the world how to do it properly far before then. In the 1970's when nobody else even had 4wd leaving the factory, they'd got 160hp out of their 6.8l.

Back then clutches, bearings, brake plates, even radiators were the same across the model range. Those big zetor crystals did frequently like a new plate in the bell housing! Local dealer could split one and have it back out in less than a day

Today deutz eak 250hp from their 6l, but though the engine is the same as fitted to their 160hp, the transmission differs with each increased hp model.

Cooling packs must also surely now differ where the engine output can differ by 50% between the lowest and highest in the range?

That said, I paid a man to "tweak" my 4.9l thirsty sisu powered valtra. Despite 30% more power, it uses less fuel, and runs cooler. Perhaps the engine map now makes more difference to what cooling hardware is necessary than the days when more fuel, and more hp, just required a 10mm spanner to the pump?

 

[daveydiesel1]

You must be a young pup

I remember the astonishing grunt of the 7.5l in the range topping 8340 fords

They were 125hp

Admittedly zetor was showing the world how to do it properly far before then. In the 1970's when nobody else even had 4wd leaving the factory, they'd got 160hp out of their 6.8l.

Back then clutches, bearings, brake plates, even radiators were the same across the model range. Those big zetor crystals did frequently like a new plate in the bell housing! Local dealer could split one and have it back out in less than a day

Today deutz eak 250hp from their 6l, but though the engine is the same as fitted to their 160hp, the transmission differs with each increased hp model.

Cooling packs must also surely now differ where the engine output can differ by 50% between the lowest and highest in the range?

That said, I paid a man to "tweak" my 4.9l thirsty sisu powered valtra. Despite 30% more power, it uses less fuel, and runs cooler. Perhaps the engine map now makes more difference to what cooling hardware is necessary than the days when more fuel, and more hp, just required a 10mm spanner to the pump?

I remember white cabbed 40 series being the new thing. Dont quite remember 10 series being new.

 

[mf7480]

You must be a young pup

I remember the astonishing grunt of the 7.5l in the range topping 8340 fords

They were 125hp

Admittedly zetor was showing the world how to do it properly far before then. In the 1970's when nobody else even had 4wd leaving the factory, they'd got 160hp out of their 6.8l.

Back then clutches, bearings, brake plates, even radiators were the same across the model range. Those big zetor crystals did frequently like a new plate in the bell housing! Local dealer could split one and have it back out in less than a day

Today deutz eak 250hp from their 6l, but though the engine is the same as fitted to their 160hp, the transmission differs with each increased hp model.

Cooling packs must also surely now differ where the engine output can differ by 50% between the lowest and highest in the range?

That said, I paid a man to "tweak" my 4.9l thirsty sisu powered valtra. Despite 30% more power, it uses less fuel, and runs cooler. Perhaps the engine map now makes more difference to what cooling hardware is necessary than the days when more fuel, and more hp, just required a 10mm spanner to the pump?

Surprising how much they can squeeze out of them these days. Our forager is only 9l but is 430hp. I think it must be one of the most power dense AG engines there is. 47hp/L. Make's plenty of turbo noise, i'd imagine they're chucking a fair bit of boost pressure into it.