Wilder Britain ...

[Longlowdog]

The biggest single issue in this topic is that some folk now believe that one person's personal possessions are a shared commodity apart from what they themselves own. They want access to land for their own devices but have a fence round their garden. What I own I have worked for, it took sacrifices and it is mine not the aRSe PB's or George Monbiot's it is mine. It is my home, my factory floor and my little bit of bought and paid for paradise. As far as I'm concerned anyone can release anything they like including grizzly bears, poisonous snakes and even politicians for all I care on land they own but do not dare to presume they can spill on to my place. Do what you will with what you own but what's mine is not yours.
These people would be enraged if they booked a tropical holiday on a single occupancy wild island and a boat load of drunk Scousers turned up 'because I paid for my seclusion and privacy' but would take that away from me. How does that work? It isn't right and it needs righting.

 

[Tubbylew]

The biggest single issue in this topic is that some folk now believe that one person's personal possessions are a shared commodity apart from what they themselves own. They want access to land for their own devices but have a fence round their garden. What I own I have worked for, it took sacrifices and it is mine not the aRSe PB's or George Monbiot's it is mine. It is my home, my factory floor and my little bit of bought and paid for paradise. As far as I'm concerned anyone can release anything they like including grizzly bears, poisonous snakes and even politicians for all I care on land they own but do not dare to presume they can spill on to my place. Do what you will with what you own but what's mine is not yours.
These people would be enraged if they booked a tropical holiday on a single occupancy wild island and a boat load of drunk Scousers turned up 'because I paid for my seclusion and privacy' but would take that away from me. How does that work? It isn't right and it needs righting.

The "it's not your land, it's ours" argument is all very well until there is a tax bill floating around.

 

[tinsheet]

I'm all for it, wolves bears etc, also we must open the countryside, right to roam anywhere!
as long as I can have a dozen guardian dogs.
Think I'll just sit back on my quad bike (with no helmet ) and watch the sport.
interesting times ahead.

 

[J 1177]

Ok no worries - once you have persuaded the government to buy 900,000Ha in one parcel and moved all the occupants out give us a shout:-

Exactly we are a deeply populated urbanized country, introducing wolves wouldn't be just a disaster to a few farmers, it would be a disaster and a danger to the general public. Absolute morons living in a bubble to even suggest this.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Exactly we are a deeply populated urbanized country, introducing wolves wouldn't be just a disaster to a few farmers, it would be a disaster and a danger to the general public. Absolute morons living in a bubble to even suggest this.

Yep and theres plenty of things that need attention first like the out of control rabbit rats and badger populations , if they can sort all that plus other pertinent stuff, then it might be worth listening to there 'suggestions'

 

[unlacedgecko]

Because cornered, terrified animals do; and you didn't nswer my question.

You'll have to post some start-to-finish videos of your 'humane' exploits before I'll believe in the lack of suffering you claim - to be clear, is it no suffering or just very little?

I've no problem with culling, shooting them cleanly, and it would be a lot less effort than digging down to them, but I guess it would be less fun for you and your chums too.

I hunted with hounds a lot when I was young and - for reasons of jurisprudence - I'd not see it illegal, but it is cruelty for fun, plain and simple. That written, there are very good arguments for its continuance from an evolutionary perspective.

To avoid derailing thread I shall pm

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Re wilding is rearing it's ugly head again in East Anglia. The subject of a recent thread on here (This Guy!) is once again in the local daily paper. A very good counter argument from my landlord on the same page.
What can we do about these nutters?

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Re wilding is rearing it's ugly head again in East Anglia. The subject of a recent thread on here (This Guy!) is once again in the local daily paper. A very good counter argument from my landlord on the same page.
What can we do about these nutters?

Do what they are doing. Engage with public opinion and create a reasoned compelling argument to convince policy makers that you are right and they are wrong.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Do what they are doing. Engage with public opinion and create a reasoned compelling argument to convince policy makers that you are right and they are wrong.

Actually what landowners and farmers have done in this neck of the woods is work together to offer a more realistic way "forwards" in the "Breckland Farmers Wildlife Network" to try and attract ELMS money to form a connected network for wildlife outside the farmed areas.
As a very small, insignificant tenant I'm not involved in this, however it would be a major disaster to me if certain apex predators were introduced to the area.

 

[Katarina]

Do what they are doing. Engage with public opinion and create a reasoned compelling argument to convince policy makers that you are right and they are wrong.

Do what we did in Mid Wales. Send them packing back to there idyllic fantasy world. They think they can roll in to a target area preaching of a better future where nature and people become one and it will bring an abundance of jobs along with it. It's utter fantasy and drool and we have seen it and heard the propaganda machine that came with it.
They didn't come to Mid Wales to try and win the communities over to there vision. They came and told us what they were going to do and they assumed that we the Natives would bow to there might.
As we have seen with the replies they come out with on here , there way of thinking is the only way forward. They cant deal with anything that doesn't fit there agenda.
I really don't get where our food would come if this country became a rewilding nature reserve. It's all utter total poppyco'k bolloc"s.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Do what we did in Mid Wales. Send them packing back to there idyllic fantasy world. They think they can roll in to a target area preaching of a better future where nature and people become one and it will bring an abundance of jobs along with it. It's utter fantasy and drool and we have seen it and heard the propaganda machine that came with it.
They didn't come to Mid Wales to try and win the communities over to there vision. They came and told us what they were going to do and they assumed that we the Natives would bow to there might.
As we have seen with the replies they come out with on here , there way of thinking is the only way forward. They cant deal with anything that doesn't fit there agenda.
I really don't get where our food would come if this country became a rewilding nature reserve. It's all utter total poppyco'k bolloc"s.

The likes of georgec1 and all the ones like in the OP should put into a very deep narrow pit with a little hole at the top so that passing people could squat a take a sh.it over it.
Then they would know what we feel like .

 

[Anymulewilldo]

The likes of georgec1 and all the ones like in the OP should put into a very deep narrow pit with a little hole at the top so that passing people could squat a take a sh.it over it.
Then they would know what we feel like .

With the hole just big enough to accommodate a tanker pipe...?

 

[Bury the Trash]

With the hole just big enough to accommodate a tanker pipe...?

Yeah Could do but what I meant was random passing people could sit over the hole and sh!t on them from a great height.

 

[Bald Rick]

Do what we did in Mid Wales. Send them packing back to there idyllic fantasy world. They think they can roll in to a target area preaching of a better future where nature and people become one and it will bring an abundance of jobs along with it. It's utter fantasy and drool and we have seen it and heard the propaganda machine that came with it.
They didn't come to Mid Wales to try and win the communities over to there vision. They came and told us what they were going to do and they assumed that we the Natives would bow to there might.
As we have seen with the replies they come out with on here , there way of thinking is the only way forward. They cant deal with anything that doesn't fit there agenda.
I really don't get where our food would come if this country became a rewilding nature reserve. It's all utter total poppyco'k bolloc"s.

O'r mynydd i'r mor is still alive and now overseen by RSPB Cymru. It hasn't yet gone away

 

[Suffolk Serf]

It is rather ironic that rewilding will only benefit the large landowners-RSPB, National Trust or the aristocracy that @George C1 despises. Indeed it’s some of the latter that are driving it in East Anglia.

 

[kfpben]

Wolves in Europe aren't foreign though, it was only relatively recently they were wiped out, everyone agrees that conservation, introductions etc. need to be managed - Wolves hunt to eat and survive.

Cats are the ones that kill for pleasure.

Hunting for enjoyment just seems archaic to me.

So ‘population control’ is ok as long as it’s done with a suitably sad look on the shooter‘s face and a press release from an NGO ‘regretting the need for culling’.

But if shooting/hunting is carried out by people enjoying themselves that’s wrong and must be stopped?

I doubt the quarry species cares less what class the people killing them are or whether they happen to be enjoying it.

 

[Dry Rot]

Because cornered, terrified animals do; and you didn't nswer my question.

You'll have to post some start-to-finish videos of your 'humane' exploits before I'll believe in the lack of suffering you claim - to be clear, is it no suffering or just very little?

I've no problem with culling, shooting them cleanly, and it would be a lot less effort than digging down to them, but I guess it would be less fun for you and your chums too.

I hunted with hounds a lot when I was young and - for reasons of jurisprudence - I'd not see it illegal, but it is cruelty for fun, plain and simple. That written, there are very good arguments for its continuance from an evolutionary perspective.

I think you are missing the point that an animal does not know what is outside it's experience. Until the last moments, the hunted fox believes it will escape -- as it has always done in the past. They certainly have no knowledge of death, until it happens. I have spent a life time observing Nature, sometimes hunting, but also training various species. Part of training is what I call 'realisation'. That is making an animal aware of what it CAN do by arranging events so it can experience success.

Badgers are tough animals and are not killed by even the most aggressive terrier. Predators are specialists if they have the opportunity to be so and digging out a rogue badger (or fox) is a very selective way of dealing with an individual that has acquired a taste for doing something that is harmful to man. Both foxes and badgers will take lambs and some become experts and specialists.

In the meantime, not one word about my proposals to re-introduce the Black Rat.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Ok no worries - once you have persuaded the government to buy 900,000Ha in one parcel and moved all the occupants out give us a shout:-

I was replying to a specific question about the effect of wolves on an ecosystem. I never mentioned the government or moving occupants.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

It's like comparing apples to eggs though, yellowstone is 8991sq km with a few thousand people living there, north yorkshire is 8654 sq km with 1,158,816 people in 2019 north york moors national park receives nearly 8 million visitors annually, where yellostone only get 4 million, don't get me wrong i'm reasonably openminded about re introduction of some species, provided me and mine, are given sufficient recourse to deal with the problems that come with it. What I do take issue with, is the thought by the rewilders that trying to wind the ecological clock back is some kind of silver bullet to wipe all mankinds ills, it's dangerously naive.

Who is comparing Yellowstone with anywhere? I was answering a specific question about the effect of wolves on an ecosystem.

 

[Exfarmer]

I think you are missing the point that an animal does not know what is outside it's experience. Until the last moments, the hunted fox believes it will escape -- as it has always done in the past. They certainly have no knowledge of death, until it happens. I have spent a life time observing Nature, sometimes hunting, but also training various species. Part of training is what I call 'realisation'. That is making an animal aware of what it CAN do by arranging events so it can experience success.

Badgers are tough animals and are not killed by even the most aggressive terrier. Predators are specialists if they have the opportunity to be so and digging out a rogue badger (or fox) is a very selective way of dealing with an individual that has acquired a taste for doing something that is harmful to man. Both foxes and badgers will take lambs and some become experts and specialists.

In the meantime, not one word about my proposals to re-introduce the Black Rat.

You are not keeping up on another thread “what is this animal” you can see one of our Norfolk friends has just done his best to exterminate the local population of black rats